Welcome to the Accessible Yoga Podcast where we explore how to make space for everyone in the yoga community.
Amber Karnes 08:24:06
This podcast is brought to you by the Accessible Yoga Association, a nonprofit organization focused on accessibility and equity in yoga.
Hi, I'm your host Jivana Heyman, my pronouns are here on him, and I serve as the director of Accessible Yoga.
Amber Karnes 08:24:20
And I'm your co host, Amber Karnes. My pronouns are she and her and I serve as president of the Accessible Yoga board of directors.
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Accessible Yoga Podcast. I'm excited today I have Jacoby Ballard is my guest Hi, Jacoby.
Jacoby Ballard 08:24:35
Hi, thanks for being here. Let me introduce you to Jacoby as a social justice educator and yoga teacher in Salt Lake City, Utah. Known for his playfulness, heart opening and commitment to change from the inside out. As a yoga teacher with 20 years of experience. He leads workshops or treats teacher trainings, teaches at conferences and runs the resonance mentorship program for certified yoga teachers to find their niche and calling. In 2008, Kobe co founded third word Community Health Center in Brooklyn, to work at the nexus of healing and social justice. And since 2006, Jacoby has taught Queer and Trans yoga a space for Queer folks to unfurl and cultivate resilience to Kobe received yoga journals Game Changer award in 2014. And good karma award in 2016. Jacoby has taught in schools, hospitals, nonprofit and business offices, a maximum security prison and Recovery Center Cancer Center LGBT centers, gyms, a veteran center and yoga studios. He leads workshops and trainings around the country on diversity, equity, inclusion, and consults on the eye for yoga and meditation organizations. He's the author of a Queer Dharma yoga and meditations for liberation, which was just released. And that's what we're going to talk about today. Mostly Right, yeah. How's that? How do you like your bio being read to you?
Jacoby Ballard 08:26:01
It's humbling and also, like, it's been a lot of years of doing this.
Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. You've done a lot of amazing diverse teaching. It sounds like I love that part of your bio, and the places you're sharing yoga. I feel like that's so important, you know, as well, maybe not just yoga, I mean, probably meditation as well. But I, I find that that's where that my learning really happened, you know, is in those challenging environments where I had to adapt to the moment to, you know, yeah, did I miss anything on there?
Jacoby Ballard 08:26:42
I don't know that those are like the the big points have been working with the yoga service council for a long time and off the mat into the world for a while and consulted with, with alongside you with yoga Alliance and Lululemon and yoga Journal, and so other Dharma spaces as well. That feels kind of like a newer aspect of my work in the last like, five years to do that consulting work. Kind of transitioning from like, banging my head against the the walls of the yoga industry to like, helping it become something different.
Yes, that's really interesting. Well, that's one of the things I wanted to talk to you about today, actually. Actually, the other thing I was gonna mention is you also apparent, right? Yes. So we have that in common?
Jacoby Ballard 08:27:33
Yeah. A little bit of a age difference between our kids.
Yes, my kids are older. My kids are 20 and 16. These days, which, yeah, is something else. And your child is younger, right? Like a couple years old?
Jacoby Ballard 08:27:50
Yeah. Gigi is almost 3. Wow. Okay, that's exciting.
Yeah, not that it. I really think they call it what terrible twos and I find that so annoying, because it was like the best age. It's, there's so much it's such an exciting moment, you know, to like, really explore the world and become who you are. It's just I found it really great.
Jacoby Ballard 08:28:13
Yeah. Self determination and the lack of awareness of like how you should be.
Yeah, that's exciting. Yeah. Well, mostly, I want to talk to you about your book. And it's been out for a couple of weeks. How's that feel now having it out in the world?
Jacoby Ballard 08:28:28
It's been fun this to just hear from people about what's landing for them. I was just talking to our colleagues, and she was saying how moving it was that a lot of my reference points are Black feminists, and how them kind of welcomed her into the text as a as a Black woman. And then I've been hearing you know, just from like, people that I didn't know like a Queer man in Toronto or the parents of a Trans kid. The coast of Maine. Lovely.
Yeah, I mean, that is that is lovely. And anyway, that's the point right? To find another avenue. Yep. To get the teachings out. Yep. Is that it? Or could you say it? Was there another reason behind writing the book like you have a mission?
Jacoby Ballard 08:29:21
It shifted over the years, I was engaged in the writing process for about eight years. And it began as a statement, a response to mainstream yoga world in New York, it was like, is it Queer, Trans yoga? Isn't that exclusive? Are you separating community? Why are you being divisive? Can we all practice together in one space? So it started as a response to that. And then I was teaching Queer Trans yoga along those those eight years and came to, you know, witnessed my students and what they were bringing into the space. And the unique way that we held the class as Queer people are. The politics that were inevitably invited into the, into the room because of just the label of Queer as like a political identity. So that, you know, we could talk about abolition, we could talk about homelessness in the space, we could talk about white supremacy, whatever, like it, of all yoga spaces, it was like a typical to be able to talk about dynamics of power, because Queer people often did, right, and it was a clear space. Whereas like, my other classes, like I had to be like, a little bit more strategic in talking about some of those topics. So then it did I, part of what's really moved me that I, you know, right, the first half of the book on is the heart teachings, called the Brahma Vihara, as in Buddhism, and then they're also all listed in the yoga Sutras of Patanjali. Loving kindness, compassion, joy, and equanimity. That's been, you know, really important for my personal practice, it's been a lot of what I've taught in the last 10 years, when I teach philosophy. And when I theme, my Asana classes, there's it's often themed around different philosophical risks. And then the second half of the book was just like how, you know, a critique of how things are the chapter, cultural appropriation chapter and capitalism, just like that encompasses, like my frustrations with the yoga industry, and then had to write about it. I've learned since starting the community health center that I did in Brooklyn, that lifting something up and building something new, it's much more difficult than critiquing. Right. And so I wanted to use a few examples of like, The Holistic Life Foundation and taught yoga for 12 step recovery in the East Bay meditation center as like, these are these organizations are doing work at the intersections of social justice and embodied and contemplative practice. So you know, there's models out there that mainstream yoga could follow. It's not, we don't have to reinvent the wheel here.
Right? I have a strange question, maybe as a writer, and that is, how did you decide on the voice of the book? Like, what is the you know, what I mean? Like the, like, what pronoun you use, and how you like, is it in first person like I blank, or, because I noticed that you, you mostly talk in the first person and then sometimes your shift to the third person, but it's, it's almost all your story. And I just wondered if you thought about it consciously if you were challenged with
Jacoby Ballard 08:32:45
I, I feel like I'm teaching, like I was writing in the way that I teach, sharing, you know, how the teachings have impacted me and sharing that with my students as a potential doorway in for them. And I guess I was like, thinking of some of the books that have influenced me the most by, like radical acceptance by Tara Brock, or loving kindness by Sharon Salzberg, and kind of seeing it my book similarly, and like really discussing the teachings, but also through my unique lived experience, and including my stories, including stories of some of my students, and that in even including the the bodies through the the drawings of the asana practices at the end of my students.
Yeah, it was just because it's something I struggled with a lot. You know, I think that I, as a teacher, sometimes, you know, I'm seen as the authority when I'm speaking in a class and I noticed how that same thing happens in writing a book and that but it's different. And so I've kind of just tried to be conscious of, I'm trying to, I'm trying to be conscious of the way I speak If it's always my experience, or if I'm speaking generally if I'm generalizing, especially around spiritual things.
Jacoby Ballard 08:34:05
Totally. I mean, I think, well, something that I say, whenever I teach, and then
I feel like it's important to lead with humility. And that like teachers that don't lead with humility are leading with ego. Right? And that gets us in a lot of trouble. We've seen that at every spiritual lineage, as you wrote about yourself in your own book. So I tried to, you know, offer up to my students anytime, like, say, I'm teaching uncompassionate like, this is it said that hurt people hurt people, try that on for yourself, Does that resonate with your own experience? Or, you know, this is what's been done by like, 1000s or millions of practitioners before you and it might not resonate for you, that might not be true for you, you're invited to try the teachings on for yourself? It doesn't have to be like, the truth with a capital T. Yeah.
Yeah, that's it. No, I mean, I love what you did. I feel like you you really stayed true to your personal voice. And then, I mean, what you do is you you it's almost like, I mean, I think you found the perfect balance, because you share it from your first person perspective. And then you shift to we when you kind of try to generalize the concept, but then you quickly come back, you know, and I think that's a great balance. It's like, like you said, it's like, here's, here's my experience, here's what I think. And then this is what we're doing. This is what I see us do it. You know what I mean? Like, you kind of just, you just go out there a little bit, and then you kind of come back and say, back to me, which I know I think is a really I know, maybe I'm making a big deal out of this. But I think that if you look at some of the more kind of Guru teachers on the way that some of these practices have been shared, it's always in third person, it's always generalized. And I think it's a power play a bit. And yeah, it's coming from ego. So it appreciate that. I appreciate that. And it just the way that you shared your story, and then how you kind of went between teachings, and also personal examples, and even even like, cultural references. And there's a lot of that. I wondered you, if you could talk about you said it earlier, like you were it started the book started as kind of a, I don't know, like an explanation of the importance of Queer spaces in yoga and spirituality. Right. Yeah. And I wondered if you could say more about that. It's, as you said, it's a place where you would explore different kind of radical ideas. But I wonder about the way that the spaces are held to a kind of thought you had something else to say about that, like, not just the content, but actually the context? Like what is it in holding a space that feels different?
Unknown Speaker 08:36:59
I mean, I think having some common ground of like what we're dealing with in our life, we know, for example, in a clear Queer classroom, that if someone is pregnant, or someone is bringing a baby into their life, that that's not even easily come by, and certainly not by accident, right? Like that doesn't need to be set. Or, you know, someone could like vent in their share at the beginning of class about having been harassed on the street, or on the subway and the way on their way into class. And it's kind of understood that, that's about their sexuality, or about their gender presentation. And there's kind of a familiarity of holding that suffering, because that's what we hold for one another, and then our old selves every day. I think also just like different reference points, like I try to read from poetry that's written by by Queer folks I tried to play when I played music in my classes, I tried to play the music of Queer folks just which is not often the case in like a mainstream class, right? Unless it's like, you know, explicitly effort it towards it's, it's, you know, even when there's like, Mary Oliver gets shared, for example, all the time, but we're very rarely as she recognized as a lesbian poet, right? Or Ram Das very rarely. I mean, he wasn't even that out about his own sexuality. And so those sharing the teachings of Ram Das are certainly not could identify him as a gay man, but he was Yeah,
yeah. That's awesome. I feel like you kind of that the structure of the book also kind of feels that way to me because I think I really like the kind of the beginning of the book. It feels like you Entering by kind of like, touching on the big issues that I think most Queer people struggle with, kind of like? Well, you have it's acceptance and letting go. Anger, compassion, forgiveness, I feel like it's kind of like it to me, it felt like the struggles that I went through in in like thinking about and embracing any spiritual path at all is like, how will this? How will this serve me and my personal experience and struggles being Queer and being different and like not being part of society? And I feel like, like anger in particular kind of struck me in that way, you know?
Jacoby Ballard 08:39:43
Yeah, I think it's so rarely spoken about or written about in spiritual spaces, which means those of us who are angry at the systems of injustice that affect our lives every day, we're not fully welcome there. Yeah, it's just one of the implicit ways that we can be welcomed and seen or or have to leave part of ourselves at the door.
Mm hmm. Yeah, because it seems like, I mean, most spiritual practices I've studied have made it seem like anger is negative or bad. And that it's actually yeah, like, it's because of ego. You know what I mean? It's based on ego or defensiveness, there's something right.
Jacoby Ballard 08:40:31
Right. Right. This is a spiritually adept person that's having this anger.
Yeah. But that's not what you say, can you share?
Jacoby Ballard 08:40:42
I think there's wisdom and anger, right, like anger tells us that something is wrong. And underneath anger is a broken heart, and fatigue and fear. And that's often because something that we love, something that's precious to us is being threatened or destroyed, or harmed. So there's the ferocity of anger comes out to like, stop the harm right now. So like, in that way, I see that anger is like, a manifestation of compassion. And if we, if we squash anger, as one of my students shared, that, it's going to come out the side of our neck, like, it's gonna, that energy is going to come out no matter what. Maybe it comes out in our emails, maybe it comes out in our relationships with colleagues, maybe it comes out with through our driving, right, but it's gonna know that energy needs to move and be released. And so if we can work with it really purposefully and directly to have ongoing practices of discharge, especially for those of us that are, you know, heartbroken by the world every day. Then that allows in space for the, for the for compassion, or equanimity, or the, you know, being with things as they are, which is like, more the way that we're expected to show up in spiritual spaces.
And you talk about discharging angers, energy.
Jacoby Ballard 08:42:17
Yeah, I mean, there's most, most cultures have various ways to do that. And I find that a lot of people come into asana practice, actually, as a discharge practice, like they people that go towards the like, really vigorous practices, especially like they're needing to move energy, they don't always have sense of that a conscious sense of it themselves. But that's otherwise it's going to get stuck in their body, or they're going to be tired, or they're going to be, you know, speak harshly with their loved ones. So I see it both spiritual traditions, whether it's twirling, or stopping or drubbing or, you know, martial arts, it's like, it's a movement of that energy, so that we can find stillness.
Yeah, I love that. I remember, I don't know where it was you talk. You tell a story of how you were in a workshop with Seane Corn, I think and I think it wasn't anger, but it was like you were just overwhelmed by holding the pain of the world. And she was like, that's not sustainable. And she told you to go yell or something. Is that right? Yes,
Unknown Speaker 08:43:25
Totally. She assigned me to go up to my the roof of my apartment in Brooklyn at screen every day as a practice.
Amazing. Did you do it?
Jacoby Ballard 08:43:36
I didn't do it every day, but I did it many days and I still do it. You know, like even like this morning my kid was screaming and kicking getting into his car seat and like, my partner was there and I just need to step away for a minute and I just crossed the street and went to screen and then I kept looking back you know, so that I don't get it like all over him. I don't scare him with me. Anger. But I recognize that I needed to release something.
That's awesome. I mean, that's a great example of practice, because it seems like so often we don't have the self awareness to step away. And then it just comes out on the people around us. You know? Yeah. Yeah. I got frustrated with my son last night. And I was thinking about it. I was like, you know, is that the most skillful way? I mean, it's different with an adult, and he's an adult now. So I don't have to protect him the way I do with a small child, but, you know, I still always want to be skillful in the way you interact with people. And I think sometimes I need to use anger with him to get his attention. Actually, I find but it has to be. There has to be a self awareness around it. Yeah, otherwise, it seems like it's abuse, if you're taking anger out on other people. Yeah,
Jacoby Ballard 08:44:52
totally. Which is, again, why we need to have discharge practices to work with it really intentionally. If I know that I'm going to the batting cages later, or I went for a run this morning after I dropped him off at daycare, to like to move that energy through me so that then I could get on with my day and not harbor resentment of like, oh my god, I can't believe he was like this this morning. But like that, to transition for myself for my own well being as well as for his protection.
Garrett Jurss 08:45:21
Hey, everyone, we'll be right back to the podcast after this. Thank you for one of our supporting organizations Three and a Half Acres Yoga. Three and a Half Acres Yoga is a nonprofit organization whose mission is to broaden access to yoga, breathing and mindfulness techniques, focusing on communities who have experienced trauma. Their classes and yoga teacher training supports individuals and teachers alike and recognizing their power for positive change. Three and a Half Acres Yoga believes every yoga teacher needs training and trauma sensitivity, and that everyone deserves access to a yoga experience free of harm, regardless of age, race, gender, sexual orientation, ability or class. trauma survivors are in every room and their needs. And reactions are different from other students. it's of the utmost importance that we give yoga teachers the tools they need to avoid harm and retriggering as vulnerable practitioners enter their space. If this speaks to you, please go to threeandahalfacres.org to explore their trauma informed yoga teacher trainings, you can also make a donation to support the organization.
And how is it how do you feel about your parents? How has that changed your perception of these practices?
Unknown Speaker 08:46:46
It's changed my idea of when I'm practicing and what composes practice. One of my mentees in Suzanna's training just did a whole project about this, because she also has a three or four year old. So it's kind of on my mind, you know, the moments when I am with him, say at a playground and take a breath, that's a moment of practice are the moments where I'm like, gently leaving him down the street when he like, you know, wants to look at every dead worm on the sidewalk. And we just like we have an agenda for the day, we need to get out the door and have breakfast. You know, that patience that I can employ or the determination that I can employ as a bit of practice. And I don't get as much like time on my mat. But you know, you and I are both really involved with decentering Asana. So that's not the whole of my practice, anyway. But I, I did have some grief about that at the beginning of parenthood. I just there's no time to be on that.
Yeah, it's funny, I I still do my practice in the afternoons because of that. parenthood, you know, changed my life so much. I was a stay at home parent and I used to try to practice in the morning and it was just too hard. Like there was too much the kids are up and it was just chaos. And so I find a time either like during naps or at when they were in school or an after school activities that was just much quieter. And there was like a pause. And that's still what I do today. Like I find the afternoon is just my time like I go you know, I take a few hours every afternoon and do my do my thing. And that's great. But I feel like that's surprising to people. They're like why don't you practice first thing in the morning and it's just like I yeah, like they showed me I had to find a new way to find another way. Like stealing moments back I mean, especially when they're little my gosh It's very quiet there now. So you must either take care. Okay. That's good. Let's Can we talk about the intersection between these teachings and social justice? Because I feel like there's still some questions out there. I think about it, you know? I mean, I'll just say personally that sometimes I think maybe we overstated it when we say like yoga is social justice, rather than explain, like, social justice is a practice of yoga or something like that, you know what I mean? Yeah, I'm just curious what your thoughts are.
Jacoby Ballard 08:49:35
I, I think that's part of why the heart teachings really moved me it's because they are readily applicable to social justice work. Loving Kindness, like so much social justice comes out of the love of our own communities, or, or, or love with a group of people that we're in solidarity with. Compassion comes out of, you know, I see most activism as a practice of compassion, of a recognition that there's unnecessary suffering here, this could be changed to reduce or eliminate suffering, I think of some forms of activism as so joyful, right, like, like, protests in the street, could be a dance party, or a boycott could be a visual, or, you know, or ceremony, I think, you know, Standing Rock really powerfully demonstrated that the intersections of prayer and and social justice, equanimity, I think it's so important for for social justice folks to learn because there can be this urgency. And that takes a toll on our personal lives, on our relationships on our children on our, you know, the well being of our of our households. I don't, you know, I think some of some older activists that that have been in the work for several decades have had to come to equanimity in order to sustain their social justice work. Because if you continue to work from from power, from urgency and kind of attachment to things shifting on one's own timeline, that we're gonna burn out, like, something's gonna break. We're not in control of how fast social change is gonna happen.
Right? I mean, you say in the book, you talk about one quality of a bodhisattva is to be easily contented. You're talking talk about in the context, what does that mean in the context of a movement? I'm just very curious about that. It's what you're talking about. I mean, yeah, sustainability, I think, is what you're saying.
Jacoby Ballard 08:51:53
Yeah. And the culture, like, Can we can we take a success to be in how we are with each other at any given moment, within the movement, kind of, Can we take a success to be in like, the moment that a polished politician shifts their speech, or a bill that they're backing, of course, were like, we have political campaigns that are much larger than that demanding much greater change than that that are important. But if we're so focused on what's fucked up, then we're gonna we're gonna see that more and more as a world and then and that's just a lot to hold. But if we can celebrate the moments, and you know, of like, oh, wow, all of my comrades here are feminists that is so beautiful. Or look at all of these white folks with shirts on marching for Black lives. That's amazing, like, just like small victories that can enable us actually to keep going and make it more sustainable.
Right. I agree. I think there's a burnout that happens even just conscious. Unconsciously in some sometimes like to the news. It's almost like we're just being overwhelmed with the pain and so we don't do anything. And we feel like we're powerless, and then nothing happens. Right? So I feel like I think that's what I that's what I see here that you're trying to share with it's like, find equanimity so that you can actually do something.
Jacoby Ballard 08:53:37
Yeah. Yeah. And they're like, there could be an idea that if we don't, you know, put a new bear in the office that we fail or that so then we don't even try because that seems too enormous to even attempt. But so maybe we can incorporate like smaller goals along the way. And I know that a lot of really strategic organizers and I see that at Alicia Garza and, and Patrisse Cullors to like, mark the very small shifts and celebrate those.
Mm hmm. Right? You have a quote – you say, Sandra susuki Yoshi Roshi said, "looking out on a crowd of 1000s of students, each of you is perfect the way you are, and you could use a little improvement." It's like, somehow we have to feel like it's okay. And yet also see that it needs to change. Like, yeah, there's it's a balance, it seems to me. Uh huh. Yeah, I don't know, if you have thoughts about that. I mean, I guess part of my question is around, maybe the internal work like so often, I think spiritual practices or are offered as internal practices only? And I'm curious about that about the external part of them, like, how do you how would you say that the internal spiritual practices are connected to our action?
Unknown Speaker 08:55:14
A few years ago, when I was presenting at a college on yoga, social justice, I asked a few Facebook friends, like, what does? What does your practice have to do with social justice and how Teo Drake responded, still rings in my heart, he said, you know, my practice compels me to act because of who and what I love and the love that I'm cultivating in my practice, and what I encounter in the world propels me to practice because I need more stability, and I need more. I need to be as resourced as possible to show up for the enormity of challenges in our in our world.
Hmm, that's beautiful. I think that's so clear. It's like love is the source of the action. And that's what I tried to get it in my book, too. It's like, because I'm asked you because I really struggle with and struggle with describing this as well. And I feel like there's a lot of confusion out there about it. That's a beautiful answer. It reminds me of something else. So actually, towards the end of the book you talk about maybe like, Can I read a quote to you? You say, it's on 195. You say, "I both cherish and disdain yoga and dharma. I feel both honored and ashamed when I share that I'm a yoga teacher at a social gathering. As long as yoga is present in the United States and practiced around the world, there is much work to do to honor its roots and manifest its true potential for justice. I love the teachings and as you can see, they have guided my life, they are a deep guidance toward justice in our world." I think maybe that's the answer I was looking for. But do you want to talk about that?
Jacoby Ballard 08:56:59
Yeah, I think it's a recognition of how yoga Dharma spaces could reproduce white supremacy and capitalism and misogyny and all the systems of oppression. That's why I feel I at a social gathering, I tried to like really contextualize my work. And often say, I've like I do yoga and social justice to like separate myself from like, what they imagined yoga to me. And then I also know that media has played a role in depicting yoga practice as being purely physical and depicting Dharma practice as being navel gazing and selfish and self indulgent, which is a huge misunderstanding of, of both practices. So I think I'm bringing understanding of that misrepresentation into the spaces and then also a deeper understanding of of the teachings and really knowing deeply how important they are. And not just because they're present and yoga Dharma but also you know elements are present in in every religion there's there's practices for forgiveness and compassion and coming from love and so I think that kind of overlap of so many practices is important to like know that like people in South Asia came to this like wisdom of forgiveness, just like they did in the land. Now understand, now understood as Poland just like they did in the land now understood as Arizona like that that overlap of practice in different cultures I think is important. It just tells me that like, this is a wise human practice. so that you know, we can we can dress it up, we can say that this is part of Buddhism or this part of Christianity or this is part of Islam, but it's it's also just wisdom that moves through that avenue and that culture. Mm hmm.
Yeah. I love that I love the idea that both the both the traditions and social justice are misunderstood. I love that you just said that one is internal and one is external? And actually, it's not really true. It both are both, you know, they're both internal and external practices, it seems. And then that connection. Yeah, that was beautiful explanation. I wonder if you could talk about like, Do you have a vision for what happens with the book now that it's in the world? Like, do you have a hope for it, like what it will be used for or helped to cultivate in the world?
Unknown Speaker 08:59:52
I hope that it's used and yoga teacher trainings, I hope that it's used alongside your book, and Michelle, Cassandra Johnson's book and Susanna Barkataki, this book and Gail Parker's book, I feel like that, like we have, in the last couple of years, a whole new way of of books have been published that could totally replaced whereas before, that's because it sectors different kinds of life, have lived experience that has never been centered in yoga spaces, and certainly our world more broadly. So it feels like part of creating social justice within our spaces. And within our teacher trainings has shifted like, who are the wisdom holders? Is it just like straight white men? No. Who can we learn from? And then a student told me earlier today that her her straight sword is involved in the GSA at his very traditional high school and got a couple of copies of my book to bring to his GSA. Like, things like that just like land so tender, like Yes. I want these, like these high schoolers, whether they're Queer, or whether they tried to be an alliance with their Queer friends like I would that's so dreamy that by text could support them.
That is so beautiful. Wow. That's amazing. Congratulations for that. It's worth all that. Just just for that one message, maybe? Yeah. I don't know, though. It's a lot of work, isn't it? So? Yeah, I just wonder if you have thoughts about that. I think I've asked you before, but are you working on another book? Is that in? Is that gonna happen?
Jacoby Ballard 09:01:31
It probably will happen. It's I've just tried to be with this one coming. But I feel like there's a lot more to say about forgiveness and accountability. And I also have started teaching prenatal yoga and doing trainings on LGBT inclusion in the birth world, which overlaps with reproductive justice in general. And I feel like there's, there's more to say about that, too.
Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that part, for sure. I mean, even just as an adoptive parent, as a Queer adoptive parent, I mean, there, it's so gendered, like the whole parenting, especially with a young child that I felt was almost like one of the most painful parts of my life, outside of like, when I came out as a teenager, like I, it was, like constantly having to come out, again, constantly having to educate people, that I could, you know, be parenting, and the primary caregiver of a child as, as a Queer person as a man, like it was just like I was challenged all the time. Which I mean, it sounds like I'm exaggerating it, but it's really not it was hard to find this. It's hard to find community, it's hard to find support. So I hope you will appreciate that. That's awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here. And for writing this book. I wonder if you have any other thoughts you want to share?
Jacoby Ballard 09:03:00
Well, the other thing that is that I hope that it's useful for social movements, I really want our social justice, to be sustainable. And I've seen so many powerful organizers and visionaries, burnout. And I have worked within social justice movement organizations for a long time. And I hope that the book could further accentuate that and reach people that maybe I can't go work with directly.
Mm hmm. Right. I mean, it's incredible. I think the way a book can kind of transport you to a lot of places. You can be a part of a lot of conversations and a lot of learning that you don't even know about, you know, that's gonna happen now, without you physically present. And that's a beautiful gift. I think that you've given the world you know, through sharing so personally and so deeply about your experience. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for being here. All right. Take care.
Jacoby Ballard 09:04:03
Thank you. Jivana was great conversation. Yeah.
All right. Bye. Thanks for joining us for the Accessible YogaPodcast. We're so grateful to be in community with you.
Amber Karnes 09:04:14
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Amber Karnes 09:04:33
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai